The Importance of Male Friendships for Our Health
Aug 21, 2024SHOW NOTES
On this special episode of Man in the Arena I am joined by three outstanding coaches - Zayne Khan, Aaron Jacobs, and Tommy Geary - where we explore the importance of building friendships and how they impact our health.
Friendships are more than just social bonds; they are a lifeline for our physical and mental health, particularly highlighted by the isolation experienced during the COVID-19 pandemic.
We examine how men traditionally forge connections through shared activities and how pandemic restrictions have intensified feelings of loneliness.
This episode also provides practical strategies to build and nurture supportive friendships - emphasizing the power of vulnerability and engaging in local/community based activities.
It doesn't stop there, we offer actionable steps to overcome challenges that hold us back as we make and keep our friends.
If you want to connect with Tommy, Aaron or Zayne, please visit their links below:
Zayne Khan
Making Friends Made Simple Podcast
Tommy Geary
The Durable Dad Podcast
Durable Dad Day
Aaron Jacobs
The Storied Coaching Podcast
Youtube
Olympus Men
TRANSCRIPT
Craig Spear:
Welcome to man in the Arena. This podcast is for men over 40 who want to master their health and weight loss goals once and for all, with innovative strategies, practical tools and insightful interviews. My goal is to help you overcome your limiting beliefs and achieve your optimal health. It's time to look good, feel good and do better. Welcome to man in the Arena. Thank you so much for stopping by.
Craig Spear:
My name is Craig Spear, I'm the host and today I have a really special episode. I've got three awesome people, awesome human beings, coaches joining me today, because we're going to talk about something really cool and really, really important, and that is how to develop friendships as a man, especially as a man in your forties and older. Today I have three coaches. Like I said, I have Tommy Geary, I have Aaron Jacobs and I have Zane Kahn joining me today. So, just to get started, I'd love to introduce each one of you guys. Have you tell a little bit about yourselves, your story, and we'll go from there. So I'm going to start with you, zane, if you don't mind. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining me.
Zayne Khan:
Yes, thank you so much for having me. My name is Zane Khan. I am a friendship and social confidence coach. I am deeply passionate about helping people not only connect with each other, but connect to themselves. Since the pandemic, it's been really challenging for adult men to form friendships, and I think it's something we definitely need to work on, and I'm happy to do that work. So, yeah, thank you for having me.
Craig Spear:
I was so pumped when you, when you agreed to do this, because this is exactly what you coach on.
Zayne Khan:
Yes it is.
Craig Spear:
You talk about this all day, every day, so I'm so pumped to hear your perspectives and your advice. And again, thank you so much for joining me. Next up we have Aaron Jacobs, Aaron welcome.
Aaron Jacobs:
Hey, thanks so much. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, I specialize in men's hormones, so hormone health and high performance coaching. So own and operate a men's testosterone optimization clinic and we pair that with high performance coaching for men. Own and operate a men's testosterone optimization clinic and we pair that with high performance coaching for men that you know want to muscle up and look better, as well as all the mental regulation and things like that, to have a happier, happier life overall.
Aaron Jacobs:
So this topic is something that comes up quite a bit with men. When they come in and they start they're like hey, I want to get my hormones balanced and all this other kind of stuff. It's like, well, have we also looked at what's going on in your brain, like what's going on in your life that could be improved to be happier, and so much of that lends itself to talking about a lack of friendships. Is what ends up happening Men, especially as they get into their 40s like it starts to fall off. We haven't put in the time for 10 plus years to maintain friendships and then it starts to come to a head and, as Zane already pointed out, the pandemic just made it worse. So I'm glad we're talking about this and I want to normalize guys going out and making new friendships in their forties, not just rekindling ones that they had in college and hoping that someone responds.
Craig Spear:
Yeah, and Aaron, you, you also have a podcast, right? You have a pod. Is it called Storied Coaching? I think that's your podcast.
Aaron Jacobs:
Yeah, storied Coaching Podcast, where we talk a lot about issues like this as well and about men's topics now especially as well, about hormone health and about high performance in general, whether that's high performance as an entrepreneur, business owner, professional life and then the balance for that with family as well Very cool.
Craig Spear:
Well, and also just how that story plays into all of this right Like the story we have and I want to dive into that at some point the story we have about our ability to make friendships I'm sure that comes into this as well oh, yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah. Next up we have Tommy Geary. Tommy, this is your second time on the podcast, and just remind the listeners a little bit about who you are.
Tommy Geary:
Yeah, thanks, craig, stepping back into the arena. Yeah, my name is Tommy Geary. I'm a men's coach. I coach fatherhood productivity, executive coaching for men. And, yeah, friendship, I mean friendship for men, you know they. They say that we are hunters, right when our eyes are, right, straightforward, looking for prey, and evolutionarily, us humans hunt in packs. And a man that has other men walking alongside of him is really important and for me, I think I'm excited about this conversation because personally, it's been a big thing. I lived in Colorado for 15 years, started my family there and then moved to Ohio where a lot of my family is, a lot of my wife's family is cousins, in-laws, all that but no friends. And I've gotten really lucky over the last four years to make some solid friends and have more of a pack of guys around me and, yeah, I think the biggest. It's almost like when I started to make those friendships I didn't realize how much I needed them until I had them. So it's an awesome topic, I think. Yeah, I'll pass it back to you with that.
Craig Spear:
Yeah, no, it is so important and I'm actually surprised that this hasn't come up in my podcast before, but it's becoming more and more apparent in the guys that I coach and just reading in certain stories in the media and what's going on. And to Zane's point about the pandemic now it's becoming so much more apparent how important it is for guys to have, you know, social bonds, relationships and those sort of things. You know and this is a men's health podcast I talk a lot about longevity and for me, my brain immediately goes to like the importance of relationships and friendships for longevity and health. You we hear about the blue zones and the correlation between how these kind of communities age and how a big component of that is friendships. But I'm curious to hear your guys' perspective on why you feel it's so important for guys to have friendships right, not to stay isolated, to have other people we can connect with. So I'm going to start with you, zane, if that's okay. What's your take on that? Why is it important that we have friendships?
Zayne Khan:
Yeah, well, again going back to the pandemic, it was really interesting and sad because we saw about 15% of adult men report not having any close friends. This was actually up from 3% in the 1990s and now I saw a 2024 study which is saying it's 20%. And I think it's challenging because for adult men, and really men in general, even as teens, we tend to bond through shared activities. So, come the pandemic, when we're all in our own homes is difficult, you know, unless you like play video games or try and do a bunch of things online, those shared activities were robbed from us, whereas you know, of course, the pandemic did affect female friendships as well. A lot of women could, you know, still talk on the phone and still have that bonding time.
Zayne Khan:
But the core of what men bond over was really taken away during that pandemic, and I think it's so important for men to have close and meaningful friendships.
Zayne Khan:
I mean mental health, for, to start off with, you know, if we look at some of the statistics around suicide and men, it's really tragic there, right? So I think it's so important, just from like a baseline level of mental health, for men to have nutritive, fruitful friendships and, again, it's hard to get to that place with men because, again, with the shared activities there's not as much self-disclosure going on with men is something that men do struggle with when it comes to vulnerability and, uh yeah, just sharing aspects about their lives that they could get judged for. Men are often judged for being too emotional if they share an aspect about themselves that isn't something that they're meant to share. That whole idea of toughen up and be a man and don't cry I think a lot of the discussion from a societal standpoint hasn't been kind to men's mental health. So I would just say, even from a baseline perspective, having men be able to connect with other men who understand what the struggle is like and have those shared activities is so paramount.
Craig Spear:
Yeah, it's such a great point and you mentioned kind of that vulnerability piece. Do you see that as being one of the main challenges and the main reasons why men often struggle to make friendships as they get older or when they get into that phase of their life?
Zayne Khan:
shared activities that would bond us. But you know, a lot of us have, like families and, of course, careers and things where it's like it can be really difficult to carve out that time to go out and, you know, even like go to a arcade or share drinks or whatever it is like to have that, those shared activities. So I definitely think it's becoming more challenging. But that vulnerability is so central and I think one tip I always recommend my people is like vulnerability doesn't have to be disclosing your like deepest, darkest secrets or stuff from your childhood. Vulnerability can actually even be like I really appreciated what you did for me. You know you helped me. You know move out from my house to another house Like that is vulnerability right there, because you're showing your emotion and for a lot of men this is so challenging. But I always say start really small and start gradually and again, it doesn't have to be childhood or trauma or anything like that. It can really be just showing your emotion in a way that's safe and comfortable for you.
Craig Spear:
So along those lines, would you say that it's typically easier for people who are more vulnerable or who are more adept at sharing that they're better at making friendships? Is that a fair assumption or is that yeah?
Zayne Khan:
That's what the research research suggests. It gets a little bit trickier with men because there has to be a kind of a matching between that self-disclosure. So if you're with someone who's not as much of a sharer and you're like sharing all these things, it can get a little tricky, as you can imagine. So finding people who are similar to you in that wavelength could be very useful for men, because then they're with someone who's actually reciprocating. I always say like for my people and for anyone wanting to make new friends, they think all the weight of that friend making activity is on them because it's like oh, I have to go out, I have to go to the meetup group. But the second you start a conversation with someone else that weight gets shared because you're going back and forth in the conversation you might notice that the other dude across from you has some social anxiety too. So recognizing that the challenges of making friends is not just yours to bear is also really useful as well.
Craig Spear:
Good points, tommy. You coach a lot of dads. You have the Durable Dad podcast and so mentioned this part of your own challenges is moving and then also starting a family. I find myself in that same position where I have a daughter and I'm working on my career. Those things tend to take a priority over my friendships. Do you see this coming up a lot in your coaching with other guys as well?
Tommy Geary:
Yeah, I think the biggest hurdle to friendship for men making new friends at 35 plus, 40 plus is time, is the time and our responsibilities that we have. And second to that is probably I don't need it. I'm cool, I'm good where I'm at right now. I don't really need friends. And I think that those two things time and not really understanding the importance of friendship and what that can bring to you um really tends to get in guy's way and and there there's I don't, I I don't know, but is there like an underlying calling that I need connection, that I need to get out? And when does the pain become so hard and deep that, like, then you finally reach out? Uh, maybe that that's what this podcast is for to like let guys know like friendship is important and, um, you can get it a lot of different ways. But I kind of I liked what Zane said, like going gradually.
Tommy Geary:
Whether it's vulnerability or not, I think it's really just about like getting somewhere where there's other people, like, uh, I did a podcast on this, I talked about fellowship versus friendship and really I kind of I was inspired by this article I read, and fellowship, I think, is where it starts. So, like, are you putting yourself in situations where you're seeing other people? It could be joining a community gym, it could be like taking your dog for walks and going to a dog park where there's other human beings there, and are you at least putting yourself in a situation where there's other people there? I love what you said, zane, about activities. Like, yes, like guys can bond over activities and, um, you know, whether it's a community gym or there's a woodworking class to take or there's something out there to step it up.
Tommy Geary:
I say all that and I think someone would hear it and be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that sounds like a lot of fricking work. I have a job, I have kids, I have a wife, I have house projects, I have all that and so the barrier is there, but it doesn't mean that it's not just like any obstacle where you can maneuver around it.
Craig Spear:
Yeah, Well, you know, to that point it's making it a priority and understanding the benefit of that it's. You know, we often, like I said, we'll put my family first, my career first, and then it's friends. It's, it's, you know, we often, like I said, we'll put my family first, my career first, and then it's it's friends, like, all right, I still have to prioritize developing friendships, having hobbies, having other interests outside of this. You know, I've I've read stories about guys who kind of focus on their families and their careers and then there's some kind of, you know, strife in their family and their marriage kind of falls apart. And next thing, you know, they end up separated or divorced and they're alone. They literally have no support, no one around them, and that's just a recipe for disaster, right, Like in the moment of your greatest need, you have no one there to help you and support you, right? So can't wait until that when it's that dire.
Tommy Geary:
Yeah, and that's kind of what I was saying about like the pain gets so bad then you finally realize how alone and isolated you are. I think for me it's been like when I moved to Ohio, I got really lucky finding this men's workout group and it's called F3. I probably mentioned it on Aaron's podcast when we were talking about this stuff and it's a free men's workout group. It's actually international F3 fitness, fellowship and faith. I will plug it till the day I die.
Tommy Geary:
It was something that I didn't know I needed and yeah, yeah, I don't know. I'm not going to go too much into it, but I've really built like friendships and it started as fellowship working out. But now there are guys in my community that I know I could call on, like if I need help moving a couch or even if it's like I'm having like a tough day and to share what's going on with me. And I think that kind of proximity living in a close space with people like in the same town within is really important. If you were trying to really build those deep friendships, because the college friends, the high school friends, you might not live near them anymore, they might be in different areas of life. So when Aaron said, like not just reconnecting with old friends but making new friends. Yeah, it's trying to get local, find the local part of it and I can talk about virtual also, but I really like the local part has been the biggest impact on me.
Craig Spear:
Yeah, Well, speaking of challenges, you know, to to making friends, to nurturing friendships, Aaron, I want to hear your take on sort of the stories that guys come up with, the stories they have about making friends. You know one of the. I was talking to a client just the other day about this and he said I'm just not good at making friends, I'm not good at meeting new people, Right, and it was a story that he had. I'd love to kind of just hear your take on on how that element plays into this.
Aaron Jacobs:
The challenge guys face. Yeah, I mean our stories that we have and we carry around in our own brains tend to be some of the most powerful ones that we come across in our lives, and a lot of times they're stories that other people have put there for us, which is even worse. We didn't even have that story. We didn't invent it ourselves, or maybe we invented it because one thing happened we tried to make a friend in third grade and were turned away because we didn't have the same bike. They did, or something. And so we internalize that and over the years you're 40 plus and you're still carrying around a version of the story.
Aaron Jacobs:
That's well, it's kind of hard for me to be accepted. It's kind of hard for me to make friends. It's amazing how systematic or systemic those things can be and really just to challenge ourselves to be like you know what. First of all, baseline. It's kind of it takes effort for anyone to make a new friend to varying degrees. A lot of us deal with social anxiety with guys, especially what Tommy was saying about the hunter mentality. We love being in a pack, but we also don't like indicating to the other pack members that we have a weakness Because in the past that could mean that challenges your place in the pack. So we have these things evolutionary wise as well that we're kind of fighting against in modern society as guys, and that story that it's hard for me to make friends can be overcome with a combination of short-term and long-term goal setting, or at least something akin to it, kind of like we do as high performance coaches when we help people with short-term goals that lead to a longer-term goal.
Aaron Jacobs:
A short-term goal I feel like with friendships that I've seen be really helpful to my clients is when they have a story like this is to get involved with something kind of like Tommy and Zane were talking about, which is finding something local and easy. Sometimes that's a group that's going to go on a pub crawl. I tend to want to push towards activities that don't involve alcohol because I think the bonding experience is more authentic that way. But hey, if that's what you got to work with, that's what you got to work with. If you've always wanted to learn how to do bocce ball and there's a local group that's taking beginners to do bocce ball and it's a six-week thing, go to it. Sign up for it. It's probably 25 bucks. You're going to meet a few people while you're there. You're going to joke around, you're both going to suck at it at first and that's a bonding experience in and of itself. That's some short-term things that you can do locally that get you out of the house and around other men you might not be able to run into at your professional or your personal life.
Aaron Jacobs:
The longer term goal would be to be intentional about putting things on your calendar that you're specifically making time for your guys, for your guys that maybe you already have or have lost touch with a little bit. Try to rekindle some of those friendships. This last year, in fact, I talked with Tommy about this before this last year, my wife challenged me because, let's be honest, women can be, at least in my experience, much better about being intentional about feeding and watering their friendships. Okay, thank you. Notes. Girls nights out sending flowers to each other. They do this stuff all the time, okay, and they tend to have friendships that are still fairly robust when the rest of us guys are looking around and going. Where the fuck are my friendships? Sorry, I forgot to ask if this is an FOM friendly podcast.
Zayne Khan:
You can censor that one if you want.
Aaron Jacobs:
But what I have found is she challenged me. She's like I do these all the time. She's like I am setting up these girls trips, where she was traveling places and she could tell I was maybe getting a little bit like that kind of sucks. I want to have trips to go on. She's like plan them. Yeah, she challenged me. She was like she's like I would like it actually if you plan some trips for guys, because it makes me feel better about planning the trips when I'm away and you're watching the kids. And so she challenged me and I my challenge was to at least three times in this next year.
Aaron Jacobs:
I kind of did it. You know, as a business guy, I was like, okay, quarterly, I can plan it quarterly, which I just love that. That's the way my brain works. So I was like once a quarter, I'm going to go at least at least three times this next year and make it a point to go visit a friend. I had three different guys from my college and high school days that I kind of wanted to rekindle friendships with. I was a proactive one that started texting them and saying let's set something up the back and forth, and ended up going and doing that for just two or three days at a time, just hanging out with some of them not even doing anything that epic. We just literally hung out, went to the gym, shared meals together, went on walks. It was that easy and I could tell that they really needed it too. So maybe setting up some time for yourself to put it on your calendar, like it is a thing that is important to you?
Craig Spear:
Yeah, prioritize.
Aaron Jacobs:
It Can help you to be able to do those things done as far as friendships.
Craig Spear:
You mentioned that women kind of have that innate intentionality which I think is really important to recognize, something I recognize in my wife, and I don't know if this is universal, but she is good at making friends with other women in different areas, right. So she'll make friends with women who are part of the PTA, and they, you know. Friends with women who are part of the PTA, and they, you know, that's their thing. You know. She'll make friends with women who do yoga and that's kind of their shared sort of bond. Guys, I don't know why, but this is my feeling. We tend to just isolate and say these are my guys, these are my friends for everything. Right, and there's something to be learned about like having variable friendship groups. What are your thoughts on that?
Aaron Jacobs:
Yeah, I love that idea Friendship like friendship circles, like it's okay that you don't include everyone in every single activity, which should be hard. These are the ones that when you go to play yoga that you hang out with.
Craig Spear:
Yeah, which can be difficult, though, cause we have that pack mentality. It's like this is my pack, this is my pack, this is my, my group, like I got to bring them along for everything, right.
Tommy Geary:
But you know, yeah, that's a good point can I pop in, sorry for sure, um, because I was thinking about this, like like the saying, like you are a sum of the five people you spend the most time with. And I was also thinking about like you know, uh, if you have kids, you think about how important the friendships are that your kids have and like how influential their friends are in their life and you at least me want them to find like a good friend group. And apply that to ourself and like who are we surrounding ourself with? And we're surrounding ourself with our family because we spend a lot of time with them. But then the rest of it kind of becomes a default, like is it your neighbors or is it your kids, friends, parents, and they're like. Another thing that happens, I think, is it becomes your college friends or your high school friends, and and there's this awkward part, kind of like you were saying, craig, like do we bring everyone along? Like are those people the people that are making us better men? I think that's an important part of this is like you want someone that's either on your level or better person, right, just by spending more time face to face or over zoom with guys that are going to influence you in a positive way. That's going to make your life better. It's going to help you feel more connected, more seen, and you know, it doesn't have to be in person and I don't know if you guys have done any men's work or men's groups.
Tommy Geary:
I think, just in this age, with the technology that we have, that was my first. So I moved from Colorado to Ohio, kind of isolated, didn't have left all of my friends in Colorado and what I got? I found this workout group, but I also found online men's groups and that I mean it's like we're sitting here on zoom talking to the four of us, the four of us. Right now it became something that it was periodic. You do it every week and you have a purpose, which was really, I think, really important in friendship and like the intentionality and Zane kind of mentioned it like what, what's the intention of this friendship?
Tommy Geary:
Is it to drink beers and party? Is it to just like gamble and watch sports? Or are we here to become better men and figure out what the heck that means and what that looks like? Or are we here to just like have whatever it is and like these online men's groups, they can feel like, well, I don't know, I, I I didn't even know they fricking existed and I stumbled backwards upon one because I like put it on some Facebook ad or something like that. But, um, yeah, those have been really powerful for me and it's almost, uh, almost a.
Tommy Geary:
It breaks a barrier a little bit of where do I go, like, what meetup do I go to? What local event do I do? Who do I pick up the phone? Like it's all set up for you. All you got to do is like buy in and put it on your calendar. So I think that's that for me, that was like the virtual way of these men became someone where like, oh, I don't know life, like life can get hard and confusing and like not saying I will call a guy and be like hey, man, I'm hurting today, like I'm having a hard day, but just knowing that there is someone I can call is like sets me at peace and makes me feel like connected enough.
Craig Spear:
So it's a great point that, no, but that that you know, speaking to online communities, online groups, as another way, another resource for guys to create bonds, create relationships and it's something that I often overlook my brain immediately goes to like no, I have to make physical connection with somebody and it's got to be in person, and, um, I think there's a lot of value. It doesn't matter how you make friendships. I mean certainly. I mean, zane, maybe you could speak to this a little bit about is there? Is it better to make a in-person relationship versus virtual, like you know? Have you noticed any difference there?
Zayne Khan:
It really depends, excuse me, on the person. So I think, with these online relationships and being able to have online meetups, it can be really useful for people who are a little bit shyer and more introverted to like get their feet wet a little bit right. So having that connection from the safety of their own homes and not having to think about going into a meetup group in person and experiencing social anxiety, can be really useful for people like that and also people who enjoy playing video games. That's a huge segment of the male adult population is people who like video games and that is, you know, typically done online, and being able to have that shared experience can be so great. My friend was joking the other day. She was saying men invented video games so that they have an excuse to talk on the phone with each other. Because when you're playing that game, that's when the conversations start to flow a bit more. And from my experience I haven't looked too deep into the research on this when men are just talking about something that's a little bit deeper, they tend to get kind of uncomfortable, Like we can kind of, for some of us anyway, we feel a little bit out of place. But when we're like playing a video game or doing something at the same time. Speaking to that idea of shared activities, it can be so much easier to like focus on one thing and then also have that conversation right.
Zayne Khan:
I also want to go back to something tommy mentioned which I think is so central this idea of I'm okay without close friends. And a lot of men you know have said it's like this. Uh, the research around sleep, where a lot of folks are like you know what, I get five to six hours of sleep and I actually feel fine, like this isn't an issue for me, like it's okay. But when we really dive into that research and really talk to people who then get eight to nine hours, to even seven hours, they feel so much better. So, as a friendship coach, it's always challenging for me because I'm almost having to like share, like this better version of a life that is hard to conceptualize for a lot of people, Like people who get five to six hours of sleep and they're like you know what, this is fine Until again, later on, you have all these deleterious health effects moving forward in your life.
Zayne Khan:
So, yeah, and also speaking to something Aaron mentioned, this idea of stories. I think it's so fascinating because men and women will have contradictory stories in terms of why they can't make friends. So the most classic one that I see all the time is I'm too quiet to make new friends, and then the other side is I'm too loud and out there to make new friends. They won't use that verb, but they'll say like I overshare, like I'm too involved, right. And it's so fascinating to have these contradictory stories because I mean they can't all be true and really none of them are true, Because I always say when you are wanting to make new friends, you want to become like a magnet and when you are a magnet, you will attract at the same level that you will repel. So when you attract at a high level and people are coming towards you, you're also going to repel people who are not meant for you as well.
Craig Spear:
So, um, well, to that point too. Too, you go and find evidence to prove your story to be true. I'm not good at making friends. All of a sudden you're seeing rejection in that light, like you're seeing it much more clearly, rather than you know, maybe I'm not so bad at making friends a more neutral statement, and you don't quite see rejection the same way, or you don't even interpret it as a rejection, right. So it becomes self-fulfilling in a lot of ways.
Zayne Khan:
Yeah, yes, I think the number one skill for anyone who's wanting to make new friends, and I think, for men especially, because a lot of us are afraid of rejection right, I think to a higher degree than women. In a lot of ways, I think it's like, yeah, being having some rejection resilience and not making it mean such a terrible thing if someone like shrugs you off or doesn't want to talk to you, or you go to a meetup group and you didn't vibe with anyone like what's that quote? Um, every successful person you look up to is just standing on a mountain of failure. What if we saw rejection as just another stepping stone to ultimately having that circle, or multiple circles of friends who we can connect with, share activities with and just have appropriate self-disclosure with Right, yeah, it's so powerful.
Craig Spear:
Well, it really is a numbers game, right? Yeah, it's it's. You want to make more friends, you got to meet more people, and the more people you meet, the more likely you are to make friends. And having that sort of mindset going into it is not necessarily anticipating that you have to make a friend with everybody you meet, but the more people I meet, more likely I am to meet someone who shares my values, shares my interests, that we bond and connect with.
Zayne Khan:
Right, um, yeah yeah, I mean, even in the context of romance. For men who are single, it's like you ask them if you were to go on a hundred dates, would you likely meet someone you at least connect with? The answer is 10 times out of 10. Yes, it's like. Well, what if we applied that to friendships? Right and again, a lot of people don't see the benefits to making friends as much as they do having a romantic partner. But you know the the research is there on both sides where it's like, again, having that baseline to protect against challenging mental health consequences and then just having a more fruitful, nutritive life is you want to have those friends, right?
Craig Spear:
Well, I love your comparison to sleep. I love that analogy, right, like you ask people, how much sleep do you get? And six hours, five hours, and they think that that's enough. Right, they get by on that, but there is consequences to that and what they're leaving on the table. They could get more sleep, right? Love that analogy. It's exact same thing with friendships. I'd love to hear each of your perspective on and you've talked to each of you has kind of mentioned this already but what advice would you give to guys? Just a little bit of advice to help them build their friendships, to help them be more courageous and going out there and seeking to meet new people. Let's start with you, Aaron. What would you say to somebody? And you've talked about kind of like actionable tasks and steps already, but maybe, yeah, elaborate a little bit more.
Aaron Jacobs:
Yeah, I think I mean there's more as I think about it and the more I hear Zane and Tommy and even you talk about it as well, it just becomes more and more apparent to me that try to tie into those things that universally as guys make us feel good, and try to use that momentum in order to also make new friendships while you're doing it. I really think there's something really strong about pairing movement as men, movement and activity, physical activity with also that disarms kind of the like we're all here to kind of make friends because we don't have friends. Like if you're just standing around and all holding drinks, it's like we're all here because this is the men's friendship group. It's like kind of uncomfortable and like we all know that while we're here cause we suck at being friends apparently. But the moment you change that slightly to like going joining a public gym, joining that cool group that Tommy's a member of, f3, right, like like doing different, do it doing different activities that were physical activity is also a component of it. Even I've got a thing going with my local group of friends. Whenever I want to talk and deepen a friendship, if I meet an acquaintance, we're at the acquaintance level and I think that maybe I would like to know this person better.
Aaron Jacobs:
I have something called walk in tacos. Like there is a perfect 30 minute walk out my front door from my house along the waterfront that ends up right at a fantastic street vendor taco place. And so we go and we were walking and we're just kind of talking about stuff it's very free form and we end up having tacos at the end, like this is the perfect guy activity. Yeah, like that it's really easy for me to invite someone, say, hey, I do this thing, thing called walking tacos.
Aaron Jacobs:
If you ever want to do it, like we just walk out my front door, it takes like all together within an hour. You know, do you want to do this? Like I've got these dates, do you want to try it? Like it's a really just try to make it easy for yourself. Pair it with movement. I think it can take the pressure off a little bit. Pressure off a little bit. So that would be my two cents as far as like if there was something actionable, small and easy that you could go do after listening to this podcast from Craig try that.
Tommy Geary:
That's a great point. I'm just I'm curious about the tacos Are you having?
Aaron Jacobs:
this is what Tommy and I are friends.
Tommy Geary:
Do you and I think maybe this is what you're talking about, maybe not. You know that they make walking tacos, okay.
Zayne Khan:
No, I've not heard about this.
Tommy Geary:
I'm looking at blank stares on the Zoom screen Like I think this is the recipe. I haven't had them. This one ice cream place we go to has walking tacos and I think they take a bag of doritos and they open up the bag of doritos and they put a bunch of like meat, cheese, lettuce, salsa, whatever you want in them and you crunch it all up and you get a spoon and you can walk and have a taco. It's a walking taco I love this idea.
Aaron Jacobs:
see, if nothing else, remember this from this podcast, if you get nothing from this podcast.
Tommy Geary:
You know about walking tacos. No, don't walk tacos.
Zayne Khan:
The fact that that exists.
Aaron Jacobs:
Yeah, you don't have to stop when you're walking with guys.
Tommy Geary:
You don't have to stop. You just keep going. You keep eating your tacos while you walk.
Craig Spear:
This is a health podcast. I love this idea. I think you just yeah. Okay, understood idea, I think you just yeah, okay, maybe something else that there is, maybe, uh, gluten-free tortilla chips or something, I don't know yeah, rice, rice chips, or something yeah, yeah, yeah I mean did, I, did I say that the ground beef they put in is grass-fed.
Tommy Geary:
and it's good stuff there, you go.
Craig Spear:
Well, okay, tommy. Beyond that, what advice do you want to offer to listeners who you know they're on the fence? They're like yeah, I know I need to make friends, I want to make friends, I'm just not very good at it. That's their story. How do I go about doing that?
Tommy Geary:
Man, I mean it's. I was on a strategy call with a guy a couple of months ago and we were just kind of brainstorming, right, it was a dad, he has kids, life's good. But he just kind of felt like the malaise of the day-to-day setting in and, um, we're just talking about like what would turn life around. And he was, like, you know, going out and having coffee with someone and I was like, all right, these sessions that I have with guys are strategy sessions, so let's freaking strategize about it. And, like Aaron said, small goals lead into bigger long-term goals. So just really worked it out Like identify who do you want to reach out to. And he named a person and I said what's a good day for you to do it? Time of day oh, on this day I don't have any work meetings and the kids are at school all day and I don't get to them until three thirty. So I could do whatever day it was. And I was like, perfect, so what's the next step? And the next step is to text the guy. So I guess like that, you know, we, we hung up the phone and checked in like a couple of days later. What's up? Man, he's like I went and had coffee with this guy and it was great. Nothing huge, but it changes. I think the biggest thing is like it changes that day to day. It gives you something to look forward to, it switches it up, it brings a new person in your life and that's what makes life more exciting. So I guess, if you're listening, pick someone that's around you and if it's not around you, it could be a phone call that you put it on the calendar, like Aaron said earlier Pick a time. So pick a person, pick a time, text them and just book it and do it in the next couple of days and it's a 10 minute phone call and that's the start of something. And just pause and see how you feel afterwards and how you feel before. And if there's stories getting in your way that we've been talking about you know, I mean I'm not always a proponent of pushing through those stories. Sometimes we got to pause with them. You know, I mean I'm not always a proponent of pushing through those stories. Sometimes we got to pause with them. But just I. Actually, when we were doing this, there was a men's talk that I was listening to and he said like the best four words you have to remember is like pick up the phone. Like pick up the phone and oh, and this is what I was. One more thing Okay, the person that you're calling or the person that you're reaching out to, probably needs that call just as much as you do.
Tommy Geary:
Like you're actually reaching out to another man that is also probably isolated and like, if you're thinking of the person, reach out to them Cause you know to go the whole way, this, this men's loneliness and isolation and mental health. Men's suicide is the highest rate of suicide that there is among people in the demographic. So the dude you're thinking of, who knows what the hell is going on with him, like maybe you're picking up the phone and saving his life. I know that sounds extreme, but that really could be the case.
Craig Spear:
I know that sounds extreme, but that really could be the case. I have a friend along that point, but he he, his strategy is, every time he drives in the car he's picking up the phone and calling somebody five minute drive, 10 minute drive, an hour drive who can I call and connect with? It's like you're driving and you're not doing anything anyway, like you know, and and that often leads to the next thing Like let's grab coffee, let's, let's go for a walk in tacos, let's do whatever. Right, like that's the next step. So it really is small action leading into big results, right.
Tommy Geary:
Yeah.
Aaron Jacobs:
It's amazing how, when those first couple of pebbles start to fall, that it causes a good avalanche of activity that builds up to something that longer term results as far as your feeling of connection to other men.
Zayne Khan:
yeah, same, yeah. Well, I love what aaron said. This idea of bunching healthy habits together and we may not conventionally look at friend making as a habit, but like if again we have the value of being healthy and walking, pairing that with a like a friend activity is such a great idea because, again, men do tend to bond with shared activity, so I think that's so great. Um, on top of that, I would say, let it be a little bit uncomfortable. It's more of a mindset tip here.
Zayne Khan:
You know, I have my podcast, making Friends Made Simple, and I always say it's simple but not always easy, because there are uncomfortable emotions and sometimes you do have to experience rejection and discomfort and anxiety. But when you have the friends that you can rely on and count on, it's so worth it. And being able to really lean into that perseverance and grit because I know if you're listening to this podcast, you've done some really hard things in your life You're into self-development, you're into growth and really looking at those areas of your life and being able to apply the same skills and tools to making friends I think that will really benefit you because, yeah, we believe you can do it and it's just such a worthwhile thing to have a group of friends that you can count on, or even one or two friends that you can count on and share an activity with or bond with. It's just, it's the best thing ever.
Craig Spear:
Fellas, this is awesome advice. It's amazing advice. I know it's gonna change people's lives. No doubt it's going to reach guys and they're going to think twice about this and prioritize it. Take action. You guys have been amazing on this podcast. All of you have been just so. I'm just so grateful that you took the time to join me today and share your expertise, your knowledge, your stories, and I'm sure all of the listeners who are listening to this as well are thinking the same thing. So, with that, I want them to be able to get a hold of you if they're interested in contacting you and reaching out and learning more about you. All of you have podcasts, so please I'm going to start with you, aaron If you wouldn't mind sharing what you're up to, how people can reach you and what you'd like them to do next to connect with you and what you'd like them to do next to connect with you.
Aaron Jacobs:
Sure, it's pretty easy. If you want to just listen to more content kind of like this and where we're talking about high performance, and for men especially, then the podcast is the best place to go, which is storied coaching. You can find it on Apple or Spotify. We have a YouTube as well that you can watch the episodes if that's more your thing. But just yeah, look for storied coaching on wherever you get your podcasts. If you're interested in finding out more about men's hormone health and that kind of stuff paired with high-performance coaching, then going to Olympus mencom is is the way to find out more about that.
Craig Spear:
Yeah, and I'd love to have you on at some point talk more about the hormone health cause. That's a big thing with men's health, obviously, Um, so maybe we can connect later on and yeah, I'm passionate about it, love to talk about that all day long tommy, how about you? How can uh guys reach you and and what's going on for you that they can?
Tommy Geary:
connect with. Well, I would say yes, aaron, you got to come back to be on man in the arena because I I did not know anything about men's hormones and testosterone levels and the epidemic that is happening with that right now. But Aaron's got a ton of knowledge and that was really interesting for me to kind of start thinking about. For me, my podcast is called the Durable Dad with Tommy Geary, so you can find my podcast there. If you are in the Chicagoland area. I do these Durable Dad with Tommy Geary, so you can find my podcast there.
Tommy Geary:
If you are in the Chicagoland area, I do these Durable Dad Days, which are kind of a day retreat for dads and it's so similar to what we're talking about. We get outside and we do some hiking, we do some yoga, very basic stuff. I got one coming up in Chicago. So, if you are in Chicago When's that, tommy? That is September 13th. So I don't know if the podcast is even going to be out yet, but it'll be out. We'll make sure we get it out. All right, cool, yeah, september 13th Friday. Um, it's, it's. I've had a, I've hosted a few of these and they're pretty fricking awesome. So, um, go to the durable dad podcast. Wherever you get your podcast, check out the Durable Dad Day in Chicago TommyGCoachingcom.
Craig Spear:
That's where I'm at Awesome, yeah, and it's right in alignment with all of this Great opportunity to meet new people and create some new relationships. So for sure.
Aaron Jacobs:
Yeah, just go to his event, find friends.
Craig Spear:
Zane, how can people find you and connect with you?
Zayne Khan:
Yeah, so I also have my podcast, making Friends Made Simple. In the show notes for any of those episodes you can find out a little bit more about me and the work that I do one-to-one with people wanting to feel more socially confident and make more friends. I also have a really amazing free resource, which is how to make friends from meetup events. Again, you can find that all in the show notes of any of those podcast episodes. So, yeah, thank you so much for having me. This has been so great.
Craig Spear:
Yeah, this has been amazing guys. I really appreciate it and I'd love to loop around sometime in the future.
Tommy Geary:
Sorry, Zane, your next action needs to be go download your freebie. That's like that's a perfect next step for anyone listening. Yeah.
Zayne Khan:
All of my podcasts.
Craig Spear:
Yeah, I'm going to get that. Sorry, no, that's all good. I was just saying I'd love to loop around again sometime in the future, follow up on this and and just have you guys on again, cause I think there's a ton of value that the listeners happy to. Yeah, thank you guys. I really appreciate it 's a ton of value that the listeners happy to. Yeah, thank you guys. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Now is the time to take action and change your life. Head on over to the spear methodcom and discover how I can help you get started on your path. Better health and weight loss.
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